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Talk:Thief
Outlaw counterpart and other quibbles. Apparently, the game considers the counterpart to Outlaw, a renamed Thief, to be Archer and not Ninja. Despite both Outlaw and Ninja having the same basic utility (lockpicking stealth class that fights primarily at range) and both getting a reinterpreted Awakening Thief promote (Trickster=Adventurer and Assassin=Master Ninja, as I've argued before) as one promotion option and a "mounted" class (Bow Knight and Mechanist) as the second option. I honestly don't understand why Outlaw would parallel Archer other than Archer having nothing else in Nohr to parallel since Nohr seemingly hates Bows as much as Hoshido hates non-winged horses. (On that note, the Cavalier=Ninja thing seems to be solely because "the Cain/Abel pair are Ninjas" and not due to any similarities in the classes themselves.) Maybe it's just me, but some of these parallels don't seem right and seem randomly assigned so that every Nohr base class parallels a Hoshido base class, even if the two classes have only the smallest bit in common. (What in Hoshido would parallel Armor Knight? Are we supposed to believe that Spear Fighter is meant to parallel that and not Lancer?) TL;DR version: Outlaw paralleling Archer and Ninja paralleling Cavalier, and not each other, seems kinda off to me. At the very least, not noting the parallels between Outlaw and Ninja in favor of the "official" parallels seems kinda...dishonest to me?--Otherarrow (talk) 22:36, April 15, 2016 (UTC) : Actually what those "counterparts" were supposed to mean was which class turns into which in case of complete class overlapping (Beruka!Percy inheriting Sky Knight as an example), and in this case it's indeed Ninja <-> Cav, Archer <-> Outlaw, Diviner <-> Dark Mage, Sky Knight <-> Wyvern Rider and Knight <-> Spear Fighter (but not ShMaiden with Troubadour for some reason). Sorry, should've clarified this in the first place. Kruggov (talk) 22:59, April 15, 2016 (UTC) ::I guess I can see the "why" of it (as Cavalier and Archer have no proper counterpart in the other faction, so Ninja and Outlaw were probably picked as "close enough" options, at the cost of the obvious parallel to each other), but it's still a little iffy. Most of the other parallels actually do parallel, if not completely then by class history (Pegasus Knight/Wyvern Rider have been connected since early on in the series, for example). Of course, this does rise a problem for us. Do we note both Archer and Ninja as being the Hoshidan "versions" of the Outlaw, citing inheritance for the former? Do Troubadour and Shrine Maiden/Monk have no counterpart, not even each other? I honestly didn't expect this to be more complicated than "Hoshido Class is the counterpart of (Nohr Class that shares the same basic role)" tbh.--Otherarrow (talk) 23:10, April 15, 2016 (UTC) ::::I think that my approach was not... correct. Maybe it would be the best to leave "themathic" counterparts (Ninja/Outlaw, Spear Fighter/Lancer, etc.) on a class page and list "gameplay" counterparts on a Reclassing page. I think that would work better than what I have written. Sounds good? Kruggov (talk) 08:41, April 16, 2016 (UTC) :::::That's probably for the best. Both sets are technically "accurate", but I can also see how, for example, saying that Archer is the counterpart to Outlaw would confuse people, as they might approach Outlaw as if it were a "Nohrian Archer" and not as a Thief (likewise, Ninja/Cavalier are even more different in role). Thanks for dealing with my confusion and sorting this out.--Otherarrow (talk) 14:53, April 16, 2016 (UTC)